Talk:Zanbatō

Lack of sources and unverified claims

Main Zanbato article is contradictory simultaneously claiming the item is completely fictional and existed as a ceremonial piece.

Article Fictional Historical Uses. First the title is confusing, as it doesn’t talk about the use of weapons referred to as Zambato{s} in Historical Fiction. Further it is written as if these weapons actually existed; of which no verification has been provided. If there are no historical journals or articles that contain peer reviewed evidence of the existence of Zambato{s} then I suggest that this section (Fictional Historical Uses) be deleted or renamed and edited – so as to prevent the dissemination of false information.

i take my guess back ok.

Well I think the section on the Chinese zhǎn mǎ dāo provides a high historical probability the sword or one like it was adapted for feudal Japan considering the bulk of their written language and many parts of their culture were brought over from China. And there is no "historical journals or articles" that flattly deny the existence of the weapon either. It seems pretty much night and day that its historical use is a possibility, so can we at least state its historical use is "disputed?"

I think the only proof that would back up the sword being fictional would be the original fictional source material where it originated and even then it could possibly be based off of real events. Heck, even Excalibur was likely based off of a real sword.

Maybe we should just wait until ja.wiki writes their own article and stop assuming we know. -Anon

Just a quick question, guys;

Do ANY of you claiming this is a purely fictional weapon have ANY knowledge of classical Martial Arts, either Japanese or Chinese? Here's the albeit highly biased-yet-still-evidencing-historical-precedence Japanese article:

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/斬馬刀

PS: the bias is the authors are reluctant to lay clear that the foundation for Japanese field sowrds in the Heian period was based upon imports from China.

Zhanmadao

The Zanbato is the just the Japanese pronounciation of the Zhanmadao which was created by in the Song Dynasty. There are several different versions of the Zhanmadao including the Zanbato but not any that look like Watsuki's version. --Anon

By all means, if you know anything about this, edit the article. I'm just going on what they say in the anime and the little I can scrounge up on the Web and Usenet. DopefishJustin (・∀・) 03:50, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

There are two games series entitled Souledge and Soulcalibur. In them is a character named Seung Mina. She wields a weapon that she calls a Zanbato. however, This weapon appears more to be a kind of polearm than a sword. --Anon

Those weapons looked to be naginata to me. --Maru (talk) 17:52, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Possible other explanation

I would like to point out, that in the Manga series "Lone Wolf and Cub" (Kozure Okami) there are numerous situations, when opponents of Ittô Ôgami comment on his fighting stance. In these cases they usually call that Suiô Ry Zanbatô, so that it appears as if it would also be the stance before the beginning of the fight.

My comics are packed up right now, but I recall it bein the stance and the related stroke which he'd use to cut people in half. Don't remember him ever going out of his way to use it only against cavalry. Highlandlord 11:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Fictional use

Another possible fictional occurrence

Would the Banryuu used by Bankotsu be a Zanbato? It certainly looks the part at first glance. The current version of his article describes Banryuu as a "ogon sword". I found no references about that expression. Would it by chance by synonymous with Zanbato?

Also - didn't one of the Nightstalkers (characters from a fairly old video game which featured Morrigan (a witch) among other light-hearted horror characters) also use a Zanbato? Luis Dantas 05:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Do you think that Cloud Strife's "Buster Sword" is the perfect addition to the list of fictional characters using these (probably fictional, yet owning) swords? - Gilder

There are plenty of swords in the world that are large but wouldn't be considered a Zanbato. The Buster Sword doesn't need to be added to the list. -- GYC

In Samurai Warriors, one of the swords used by Ranmaru Mori is called "Zamba", which is short for zambato. However, it is not as thick as weapons described in this article. It's merely a slightly thicker and longer version of his origonal sword-- the No-Dachi. If someone wants to edit this in, go ahead. --209.30.174.157 17:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Distinguish from fictional use

I think what this article needs is to seperate an anime weapon from a real weapon. Of course that weapon that Sano uses in Kenshin can't be real, the blade is too long and wide to be of any use and couldn't cut anything, plus with the weight the pole would snap. But it looks cool in the anime. Also why are a bunch of unrelated things listed? The Buster sword might be huge but it has never been called a Zanbato by of the proper people. The claim that the weapon from Gundam SEED is even stupider, being a beam weapon. Sounds like alot of original research. Highlandlord 10:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The Bleach link goes to the wrong place. Someone needs to fix it so it directs to the anime/manga.

Horseman's sword

i belive it's not a fotsoldiers sword but a riders sword. the reason is that a normal katana is to short. a lance might be more usefull but if it breakes your dead.

Where did you hear that? A sword this big would cut off your own horse's head; two-handed swords of this nature are only usable on foot (and barely, then). A horseman's sword, in Japan, is called a tachi; it's slightly longer than a katana but not this long.

Ceremonial use

The sword is probably used for ceremonial purposes. A curved sword this large would've been extremely unwieldy. The zhanmahdao, however, was mostly straight and curved near the end/tip - which would make it a more stable weapon. Intranetusa (talk) 22:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Question

"However, the historical use of a sword this size is actually as a temple offering."

I don't seem to understand what this means. Some explanation is needed, as well as a source. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ring Finger (talk • contribs) 08:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Image

A picture (a drawing, I guess, since it seems fictional) of the weapon would be welcome. —Vivacissamamente 09:18, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Fictional?

Hmm, the more I try to research this, the more confused I get. Trying to find a Japanese-language resource gets me [1], which uses the word zanbatō and describes it as a "cavalier killer", but the picture looks more like a long katana or nodachi than the crazy thing Sanosuke has. Did Watsuki Nobuhiro just invent a cool weapon and give it the name of a completely different historical sword? It would be nice if someone knowledgeable about feudal Japanese weaponry could help out here. DopefishJustin (・∀・) 03:04, May 26, 2004 (UTC)

Never heard of this type of a sword in Japanese history context. I think this is a fictional weapon. jni 13:16, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"Zanbato in modern fiction"

Time for this section to go, I think. Despite the added text that states no additions of weapons that aren't actually a zanbato, people continue to add every single oversized sword in every anime or video game ever. We've had greatswords, guan daos, katanas, zweihanders and all manner of swords and polearms which aren't technically relevant at all. And if we didn't keep trimming it every time somebody added another obscure anime/manga/video game weapon, it would be a list longer than the the rest of the article by now. I can put up with the article having no references, as the information is plausible, well-written and based upon a subject which is almost rumour in itself. But let's kick this crufty "modern fiction" section to the curb. It's dragging the article down. Gamer Junkie ^{T / C} 11:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamer Junkie (talk • contribs) 11:43, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Uh, yeah, about the Zanbato in modern fiction... How come it was rendered to "Zanmato" ("M", not "B") in Final Fantasy X? 16:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC) White Mage Cid

"Zanmato" means "magic-cutting blade" or "demon-cutting blade", not "horse-cutting blade" - it is not an alternate rendering. I've seen plenty of zanmato in games which are effective against mystical creatures but not particularly large. Added to that, "zanber" is not derived from zanbato. It's a portmanteau of "zan" (cut) and saber, which shows up in plenty of Japanese works. References were removed. 86.46.72.88 (talk) 01:02, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Opinion

This article goes to alot of effort to say noone ever used them in battle, something I find very unlikely. You can proof how foolish and costly it is all you want, it was also very foolish and costly to make incredibly expensive (in metals, monies, manpower and men) battleships instead of aircraft carriers, a fact that Yamamoto himself argued before he died. I'd like to see you go back in time and explain to a samurai (never mind the language gap) why he shouldn't use such a large sword, why bigger ISN'T better, a fact that we still haven't completely grasped. Some samurai probably did use some, probably not very many, given the cost and difficulty of use, quite a few of them probably died proving your math right. But you have no sources that say none of them were ever used. I'm gonna see about changed the article to be less opionated in that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 09:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, by no means is this a fictional sword. The media versions of it are, certainly, but the sword it self, even if never really used in the field (although that they may of based it off of the Chinese sword suggests that they also based uses for it off of the Chinese), it is not fictional, fictional means not real, art is real. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 09:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I would like to draw this discussion towards a similar sword, the Zwehänder, from Europe. This sword is up to 2meteres (six feet) and is proven to have been used. Secondly would also like to draw you attention to the fact that there are several specialized ways to use a sword, there being more than fifty different ways to use the Grossmesser. Thirdly, it is important to remember that something that is big and expensive, like the Hover Dam and the Zanbato might be better than the dam you make in the stream behind your house or a tanto if used corectly.

Moskus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.52.29.72 (talk) 18:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

斬馬刀 ≠ 斬馬刀 ?

According to this article 斬馬刀 Zanbatō is "literally 'horse-slaying sword' or 'horse-chopping saber'" while 斬馬刀 zhǎn mǎ dāo is "literally 'horse-cutting blade'." This suggests that the Japanese word has a different 'literal' meaning than its Chinese counterpart. I know nothing about the sword or swords in question, but I know that in either Japanese or Mandarin those three characters literally mean behead-horse-sword. Cnilep (talk) 19:05, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Capitalization

Is this a proper noun in English? Unless there's a good reason I'm missing as to why this should be capitalized while, say, katana, ōdachi and wakizashi are not, it shouldn't be. This should also be determined so that the first sentence can be rewritten. Currently, it is not a complete sentence. 108.34.186.243 (talk) 15:22, 5 September 2018 (UTC)